Page 3 Glenalmond in the ’45

There are two views of the ’45 in Glenalmond. One is that the inhabitants were loyal to the government. Evidence for this is that only Michael Steele, a labourer, was convicted of a role. The Duke of Atholl called out 200 men against the rebellion (from all his estates). Unfortunately there is no list of names. Charles Douglas is likely to have been such a tenant. The Jacobite Atholl Brigade also included a gardener named John Miller of Balmanno in Logiealmond from the 3rd Battalion. He deserted (p28, No Quarter Given) and was discharged. John Pullar of Logiealmond was also in the 3rd Battalion. He was taken prisoner on 6th February 1746 and discharged.

The other view is that more men from Glenalmond joined the Jacobites but they got away with it.

Rev David Forrester in Logiealmond, The Place and the People, notes that Crichton of Ruthven (in Angus) brought out 50 Logiealmond men and that Jacobite leader Lord George Murray sent orders “to raise  all the able-bodied men of Glenalmond” (p131). Also the same source notes the Jacobite Laird of Gask paying

64 Loggie men on  1st November  1745   £1-14-0
43                             2nd November 1745   £1-  2-6
43   by ball              3rd November 1745    £1-   9-9

To Gregor Murray to himself and 17 men from Glenalmond, 3 days to 2nd November 1745 inclusive                                                         £1- 13-0
5 Loggie’s men       3rd November 1745   £0-   2-6

These men fought on the right of the Jacobite army in the second line at Culloden. Thomas Drummond, Laird of Logie was taken prisoner as was the Duke of Perth (who was captured by Sir Patrick Murray of nearby Ochterytre). This shows us Perthshire was divided.

The Rev Dr Alexander Webster led the Presbyterian church in 1755, only a decade after the Rising. He caused every minister in Scotland to count the population in their parish, including a count of men of military age and the number of Roman Catholics in each parish. Sadly, he did not request names of families or locations. Presumably he was interested in providing useful information for the authorities for the next Rising. Of course, the majority of Jacobites were Episcopalian and not Roman Catholic but that point is missed so often over the last 270 odd years that it is tedious to refute it. Some men, of course, were no longer alive or were living in exile or had been banished. 

Nonetheless the survey is extremely interesting in that it shows that the population of the northern half of Scotland was greater than the southern half and it shows clearly that there were more people living in the Highlands than was the case a generation or two later. Emigration, Highland Clearances and periodic famines were to take a heavy toll.

The Douglases in the ’45

Men join armies for all sorts of reasons so we can’t just say “Our lot were Presbyterian so they wouldn’t support Prince Charlie.” That may well be true- most of the rebels were Episcopalian. But bear in mind that some people were forced “out.”  Being a wargamer with a strong interest in this period I could go on for ages about the armies and people involved but you are safe from that.

The Murray family was divided again. On one side was the 2nd Duke at Blair Castle. He raised tenants early on against the rebellion but unfortunately no list survives. Maybe one or two of our ancestors were called up, or maybe he only raised men from the immediate area around the castle.

The first Duke had an extremely large family of legitimate children (18 or 19 as far as I recall). One was the exiled titular 2nd Duke, abroad after the 1715 Rising failed. Another was the very famous Lord George Murray who was overall military leader of the ’45 Rising. He gave clear orders to force out Murray tenants, threatening to burn their homes if they would not come voluntarily.

There is no sign of our Douglas family in the prisoner list, though there is a James Douglas in the Duke of Perth’s regiment (in Stewart’s company). The problem is that we don’t know where these men were recruited. Even if we did, we don’t know where they came from.

Further reading: No Quarter Given, The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart’s Army 1745-46 (eds Livingstone, Aikman, Hart), Neil Wilson Publishing Glasgow

The Roys and the McGregors?

The surname Roy comes from Lanarkshire originally so it is a little strange to find so many nestled in Perthshire, but it can also refer to a person’s hair colour, a corruption of ruadh (red).

Everyone has heard of Rob Roy McGregor, the famous 18th century Scotsman (portrayed well by Liam Neeson in a 1990s film). Was Roy a surname for him? Apparently not- his mother’s maiden name was Campbell and he took that name when he needed to.

The McGregor clan heartland was Balquhidder, further west in Perthshire. They, famously, had their surname banned in the early 1600s by James VI and were forced to take other names. According to the Clan Gregor Society  new surnames were allocated to them. There are 4 lists of names. Roy is on a list of documented aliases used by McGregors. Interestingly, Douglas is on the list of other clan names known to have been used by the McGregors. My thanks to webmaster Nancy Johnson for drawing my attention to this.

So- it is possible that the Roy family (and all the descendants of the Charles Douglas born in 1700 come from them) who married Douglases in the early 1700s were originally McGregors. It is even possible that those first Douglases we find were themselves originally McGregors, I suppose!

Looking at Dad’s DNA links on My Family Tree DNA has been interesting. Although I have not made contact with anyone where we can demonstrate a link and most of the matches are said to be 6-7 generations out from Dad there IS one theme emerging. That is that there is a cluster of McGregors!

This could just bear out that the genes of the three ladies Roy who married three Douglases in the early 18th century are running strong and clearly show that the Roys were indeed McGregors under another name. Or just maybe the Douglases themselves had really been McGregors and took on the Douglas name.

Who are the Roys?

The surname Roy is found in the OPR of Monzie and Fowlis Wester of the late seventeenth century, throughout the eighteenth century and into the nineteenth. There were six more Roys on the 1706 militia list in Easter Glenalmond beyond those noted at Lethendy, at the Downies and Dalick.

On October 28th 1713 the Monzie Kirk Session gave 13 shillings to a Margaret Roy, followed by 12 shillings on 25th November 1716. There were other payments after this date to her. She was described as “a poor woman”. In Oct 1723 either Mary Roy or Margt Roy was given 18 shillings. I think Mary.

On December 19th 1725 William Roy, son of Donald Roy, was in trouble for adultery with a Sarah Frazer. Two years before a James Roy had been in the same predicament. Whether the same William Roy or a different one is not known, but the Kirk Sessions record William Roy of Milnrodgie had committed fornication with a young woman, Mary McGregor, on 19th June 1726.

Also, a James Roy received 12 shillings in 1728. He lived in Wester Lethandie. (all above from CH2/654/2 vol 3, Monzie Kirk Session 1711-31)

John Roy was constable in Crieff around the 1730s.

There are so many and with gaps in the records I haven’t been able to fit them together yet.

There was a William Roy who had a daughter named Beatrice baptised 5/8/1694 in Buchanty. Is this the same William Roy who was an elder in 1703? Is this the Beatrice who married Charles Douglas in 1723? Right name, right place, right sort of age- but that guarantees nothing, particularly when the name Roy is so ubiquitous there. I’d love to say “Yes, William Roy’s daughter married Charles Douglas, he was his father in law and was a life-long friend and neighbour of James Douglas”, but I can’t for sure- though I’m pretty happy that it is so.

The death of a William Roy of Milnrodgie has been recorded at  Dunkeld Sheriff Court. He died in May 1718. It seems that any money and gear he had was used in satisfaction of the expenses of Duncan Roy, his son, in burying him. No other relative is mentioned, sadly. It could well be the same man.

According to an ebook History of the Clan Gregor (p200-204), part of which is hard to understand as it has been scanned and some letters appear as numbers or as other letters, there was an incident on 1st October 1694 involving a drunken Archibald of Kilmanan at Milnrodgie and his servant, the latter being shot dead. John Roy is referred to at Milnrodgie and William Roy at the bridge end of “Haly milne.” Kathrine Maloch appears to be William Roy’s wife. Patrick Stewart’s account refers to John Roy in Milnrodgie and his son John and to William Roy in Little Downie. According to Forrester (p40) Haly Milne was the old name of the bridge at Buchanty.

We have the two Janet Roys and William Roy. Interestingly, I found the burial record of a Beatrice Roy in 1723. This cannot be Charles Douglas’s wife as she was apparently alive until 1732. She could be the wife of William Roy and mother of the Beatrice who married Charles- but then she can’t be the wife of the William Roy at Haly Milne unless he married twice.

Sources and further reading:

OPR for Monzie and Fowlis Wester

Logiealmond The Place and the People, Forrester, DM 1944

Chronicles of the Atholl and Tullibardine Families, vol 1, Edinburgh 1896

A History of the Clan Gregor from Public Records and Private Collections,  Amelia Georgiana McGregor Murray

Balquhidder Church and graveyard near St Fillans at the western end of Perthshire. This is where Rob Roy McGregor lies buried. (Picture from

The visitor centre at Culloden was renovated in the 1990s and is well worth a visit. It provides a modern overview of the last Jacobite Rising. Many of the men of the Atholl Brigade were not Highlanders as such but Lord George Murray had given instructions for men to be dressed as highlanders. This may have been an attempt to intimidate the enemy or to achieve uniformity. It is debatable what exactly the order meant- it may have been no more than the wearing of some plaid.